{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/iiif/tm71v5c48h/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Book Symposium: “¡Presente! 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I'm Associate Professor in the Department of Religion and anthropologist by training and also associate director of our graduate division of religion here at Emory University.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=44.66,53.6"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It is fantastic to have gotten to know Kyle's work, and I would like to welcome you on behalf of the Candler School of Theology, as well as our certificate program in religion conflict and peace building here at the graduate division of religion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=54.23,69.32"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's kind of exciting part of our broader graduate training here in the graduate division of religion that brings together different strands from the study of ethics and social activism.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=71.24,80.75"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it's one of the certificates where our students can talk across courses of study and it has been great to have Kyle's presence here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=81.62,88.73"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Allow me to be the housekeeper and the moderator for today. So I'd like to just give a couple zoom tips in case if we don't know them by now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=89.57,100.28"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Today we're going to be using the chat to communicate with one another and to seek quotes and links from the lecture, which will be kind of feeding in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=100.73,106.4"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Them as well, please use the Q\u0026A function to ask questions for the Q\u0026A audience. And then also, if you can please use the up-vote feature to push forward the questions that you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=106.79,116.45"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"have that will be most meaningful to you as an audience member and this event will also be auto captioned","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=116.81,122.54"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Is so it is it just a pleasure today to welcome everybody to see this sea of names that is out there for me personally, as I read through","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=123.47,132.2"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Professor Lambelet's book, and as always thinking about the schools of the Americas, it's not just the connection to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=132.89,138.74"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"To the the different atrocities in Latin America and the training, but also in where I work in the area of Southeast Asian particular Indonesian so it's interesting for me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=139.01,147.5"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"To see the resonances across traditions that I wasn't expecting to in this work. It's a great pleasure for me today to also welcome our panelists and this is just such a fun","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=148.04,159.11"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fun gathering for me. Most of my zoom meetings lately have been administrative meetings and to come and celebrate this book and what it means for us and scholars of religion, social activism, politics, non violence,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=159.77,171.23"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"politics as well. And so we have a host of guests and panelists who have graciously given their time today. And if you'll allow me, I'm going to introduce each one of them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=172.64,181.67"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then I'll pose a series of questions, or as I'll pose a question that each of them will reflect on just to give you a sense of the broader","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=182.06,188.21"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"scheduled in structure that we're going to have they'll respond for about five to seven minutes and then we'll push some of these questions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=188.78,194.66"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Also have Kyle participate and then move towards the latter part to the questions and answers with everybody here. So, we're looking forward to both of thoughts of our","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=195.38,203.57"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"panelists today. And then also from the community, who's here who's joined us this afternoon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=204.05,209.0"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's a pleasure to first introduce Anton Flores-Maisonet, the co-founder of Casa Alterna, a Ministry of radical hospitality devoted to love the crosses borders.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=209.69,218.75"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Since 2019. He has also served as a friend in residence at Atlanta. Atlanta friends meetings the Quakers","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=219.17,224.93"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And during Covid 19, Casa Alter Atlanta friends meetings host immigrants and asylum seekers, primarily those just released from immigration detention.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=225.32,233.3"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"A longtime advocate for immigrant solidarity Anton is the initiator of Refugio in a charter steering committee member of the Georgia detention watch","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=233.75,242.75"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Anton is also a student at Columbia Theological Seminary, which, of course, has many ties wonderful ties with Emory here and serves as a consultant for the forum on theological exploration. It's also a pleasure to have colleagues from Candler of School of Theology here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=243.17,258.74"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Ellen Ott Marshall comes and has been here at Emory with a master’s from Notre Dame and MA and Ph.D. from Vanderbilt. She is an Associate Professor of Christian ethics and conflict transformation at the Candidate School of Theology here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=260.18,274.22"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I'm proud to say, also a co convener when she invited me on board to help with the religion conflict in peace building concentration here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=274.91,281.81"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She's also on the faculty for the ethics and society doctoral program and Emory's Graduate Division of Religion. Dr. Marshall focuses on contemporary Christian ethics, with particular attention to violence,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=282.38,291.23"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"peace building, conflict transformation, gender and moral agency. She's edited two volumes and written three books. Her most recent book is an introduction to Christian ethics conflict faith in human life from 2018","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=291.53,305.24"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's also a pleasure to have another one of my colleagues, Dr. Ted Smith, professor of preaching and ethics here at Emory University.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=306.38,312.95"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"With a Ph.D. here from Emory University in 2004","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=313.58,316.94"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then went on to other pastures at Vanderbilt and came back as the prodigal son here to Emory just thrilled to have our colleagues here. Dr. Smith works with the intersections of practical and political theology","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=317.6,329.12"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, its first book, the new measures tells a history of preaching that gives rise to eschatological visions of modern democracy in here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=329.42,336.17"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Is kind of these I'll be interested to see how you tease out the eschatological and today's conversation. His second book, Weird John Brown,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=336.44,343.04"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"works through memories of the rate on Harpers Ferry to show the limits of social ethics for thinking about violence.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=343.34,348.68"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Smith has edited collections of essays on sexuality and ordination contemporary issues and preaching and economic inequality and currently editing a book series.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=349.31,357.98"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"On the meanings and purposes of theological education in a time of great change.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=358.34,363.26"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's been my pleasure. Here at Emory, to be able to have this chance to work with colleagues.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=363.77,367.52"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That are working at the intersection of ethics and especially social justice and what does it mean to be an activist. What does it mean to be a scholar, what are the ethical ramifications of this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=367.76,377.93"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so with this. I don't want to belabor on my own thoughts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=378.35,382.58"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Too much, I would like to really turn it over to our panelists and I would just pose a couple thoughts and kind of steering questions that may or may not resonate with what they were.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=383.42,392.3"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Planning to discuss with us today. And here I'm thinking of the importance of Dr. Lambelet lays book.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=392.84,399.53"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In terms of how we understand political theologies. And what are we thinking about what kinds of genealogies of thought.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=400.04,407.06"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And what are the kind of course real world ramifications. It's always one thing to talk and very esoteric terms about abstract theory. But another way. When we route it to specific experiences.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=407.75,418.55"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"This book has done. In the second when we, when we do that, what does it mean for research as an ethical act and how do we see that in Dr. Lambelet lays scholarship here. And what does it mean for us as we think about training.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=419.03,433.67"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Scholar whom activists and what is it is we kind of take our lens of ethics and projected outward on other political institutions processes power relations.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=434.93,445.58"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What does the ethical subject look like in terms of how we attempt to to train and think about students and for me, having looked at this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=445.97,455.0"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Come from a different angle on on both kind of religious traditions working in in Islam, but then seeing these tremendous residences with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=455.87,463.43"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the schools of the Americas and the way in which different forms of both political violence and also social activism in the kind of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=464.06,471.5"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"After the up swell of such violence has mobilized so looking forward to that discussion. Today, we will I would just invite the panelists to respond in order","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=472.31,482.6"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"First to Anton and Dr. Marshall and Dr. Smith and we're as I mentioned before. We're kind of aiming for about five to seven minutes per panelists.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=483.17,492.23"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then we will we will proceed from there. So with that, thank you all for being here. It's a wonderful occasion. Congratulations to Dr. Lambelet and Anton I invite you to join us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=492.98,503.54"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Anton Flores-Maisonet (he/él): Great, thank you very much. And yeah, it's wonderful to be a part of this panel. And of course, I just want to say a major congratulations to my friend Kyle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=505.04,513.53"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think that my my perspective as we're talking about this this book and the capturing of the nonviolent politics and the resurrection of the dead, as seen through the SOS watch movement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=514.64,528.11"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I wanted to actually back up just a bit and just remind myself and remind all of us that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=528.89,533.6"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I lead lots of delegations into Central America and into Guatemala, most specifically. And one of the things that I enjoy doing as a part of the orientation of these delegations is to take folks to cemetery.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=534.38,547.4"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"cemeteries are a way in which to tell a story to capture a history and there's a particular","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=548.33,557.99"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"cemetery in Guatemala City that not only can we look at, you know, different facets in Guatemala’s history and development. The arrival of immigrants there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=559.61,568.73"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The oligarchies that are there. But when we go to the very edge of the cemetery. We always overlook a dump. Where, where, where people on the lowest rungs of our social ladder are still scavenging","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=569.18,582.26"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"For their for their daily bread. And so it's it's a powerful way to bring the living and the dead into one space. And I think that's kind of like what I thought about when I when I was reading","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=582.68,593.06"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kyle's book. Also last week, just last week, I placed an order for a gravestone for a gentleman named Pedro Arriago-Santoya","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=593.99,604.67"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I won't go too much into detail about this other than to say that Pedro Arriago-Santoya was detained at Stewart Detention Center when he died in 2019 the gravestone will will say permanently.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=605.12,619.22"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Will say ‘Pedro Arriago-Santoya, the US government buried you in an unmarked grave no seras olvidado, you will never be forgotten.’","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=621.2,629.69"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My hope is, is that pastor buys will walk and see this this marker and be curious and maybe do a little web search","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=631.13,641.03"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that that reports will come out and people will be able to recover a history that was that we sought to bury","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=641.75,649.94"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And forget an unmarked grave. And so, I think that when I think about what what we're talking about today. It is also this this notion of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=650.57,657.38"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Recovering and preserving historical memory. My involvement with the school, the Americas. Watch and the vigil that would normally be taking place now and and traditionally took place","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=658.16,669.98"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"down the road from us here in Atlanta, down at Fort Benning was a powerful moment in my self awakening.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=670.49,677.57"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"As as a person who wanted to be both rooted deep in my faith, but also committed to social justice. It was perhaps the very first time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=678.23,688.64"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In which I got to see the power of a faith rooted activism and I found that to be particularly important, especially here within the Bible Belt.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=689.15,699.41"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"To be able to allow a faith lens to reshape the way in which we orient ourselves as global citizens.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=700.01,708.38"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Secondly, I think that is the next thing that it taught me was that it was the central primary in this in this 20th and 21st century to see the importance of being a global citizen and to see the impact of our nation's policies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=708.68,723.98"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"On the entirety of our hemisphere. But then the thing that I think that I think slowly captured me was the witness of the dead.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=724.64,735.11"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In that space in that place and the way in which that witness of the dead","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=736.22,741.71"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was kind of a prophetic call to I think Kyle what you talked about your book to penance and to repair.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=742.76,750.77"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that, that, that made an indelible mark on me at the same time that that was happening. I was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=752.81,758.33"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"living about about 50 miles up the road from from Fort Benning, and there would be this this Buddhist pilgrimage.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=759.53,768.83"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Led by my dear friend sister Denise and brother to me who would lead an annual pilgrimage from Atlanta down to Fort Benning, and we became one of the host sites.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=769.43,778.7"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kind of midway through midway through their pilgrimage. And so what a fascinating opportunity was for me also to to have like my own kind of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=779.3,788.63"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"lens just really widened to say what would it also look like to understand this, this call to justice through more of an interfaith lens and and what could, what could these Buddhist programs teach me about the contemplative and being a contemplative in action.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=789.65,806.42"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In 2007 I held the very first vigil outside Stewart Detention Center where I mentioned earlier that Pedro Arriago-Santoya set died. And at that time, I evoked the call of Moses and was invoking the language of letting my people go.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=808.46,821.57"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"By 2010 we began to involve directly impacted voices, but it was in 2013 that we actually","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=822.35,828.86"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kind of convened our vigil and bookshelf to our vigil with the school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=829.52,833.66"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Of the Americas watch vigil. Our thought was is that by having this like-minded vigil that could bring folks both nationally and internationally, that we can begin to draw more attention to Stewart Detention Center.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=834.05,845.84"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But it was more than that. We also began to incorporate the liturgy of presente the naming of individuals who had died and ice custody.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=846.2,854.09"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We had begun this performative protest that Kyle talks about and we began to continue to expand what I would I what I often refer to as divine obedience.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=854.75,864.89"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so, I look forward to having this discussion and hearing from the others and as being more of a practitioner.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=865.49,870.83"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Learning from from from from Ellen and from Ted and from and and continuing to hear from Kyle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=871.52,877.34"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"About both the the power of nonviolent politics and nonviolent engagement as well as some of the pitfalls that you talk about eloquently in your book. So, thank you very much for allowing me this, this time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=877.79,890.21"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"James Hoesterey: Anton. Thank you. And what a powerful way to introduce this conversation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=891.05,895.88"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I find more and more that is actually we scholars who are spending a lot more time learning from the activists and those who are on the ground, actually trying","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=896.54,905.45"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to merge a faith-based activism as certainly as one of these approaches through kind of nonviolent political action. And so I find myself whatever meeting, it is in, whether it's in the graduate school or elsewhere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=906.11,919.04"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Emory is working towards actually moving to where we can see the humanities in theology ethics in everyday life and the kind of seminars.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=919.67,927.32"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Are trying to get people working with people exactly like you that are doing the important work that you're doing. So thank you. And I feel like we all have much to learn from from those perspectives. Now I would invite Dr. Marshall to share thoughts with us now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=927.65,943.43"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ellen Ott Marshall: Great. Thanks, James. It's really good to be with you all, I've been looking forward to this discussion quite a bit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=943.94,952.34"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And really eager to talk with Kyle about his book. So, I'm going to gush a little bit about some things that I really love and appreciate about this book and and then I have","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=953.18,962.51"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Three questions, three things that I would love to be in conversation with Kyle about. So, first, I just want to say that this is a beautifully written and well-crafted book.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=963.35,977.24"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's a really remarkable piece of scholarship, the vignettes that began each chapter are compelling and interesting and then Kyle does this terrific job of sort of unpacking and working with what's in them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=977.75,990.95"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's also a book that's really important to several different fields that I care about and teach about. So that's kind of a selfish reason for my love of the book.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=991.73,1002.11"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But it's also a book that's really relevant to many different contexts of activism and scholarship and so he's engaging these particular context and people, but a lot of the questions that he's exploring are really persistent","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1002.59,1016.57"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Perennial questions of suffering and violence and agency and divine and human interaction.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1017.11,1024.61"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, it just has relevance across so many spheres. So, I just feel like the book as a real gift to me as a teacher, as well as","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1025.39,1033.79"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"A learner and a scholar with similar interest to Kyle's I also just want to say that I feel like it's a real gift to be able to talk with you all about this book, especially today on November 16. So, this is a very meaningful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1034.3,1049.87"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Way to reflect on the meaning of this anniversary. So that's some of the thanks. What I want to do now, just quickly, is name, just name some other things I appreciate and then I'll stop gushing and be really mean and critical","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1050.59,1066.07"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, I appreciate the methodological clarity that's in this book, I am working with Kyle on another research project. And so, I wasn't surprised.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1067.96,1078.97"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That you took care with the conduct of your research and also with the explanation of your methodology.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1079.75,1087.58"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But as a reader. And then also, as someone who works with students who are striving to do what you accomplish here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1087.97,1094.45"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm really grateful for this wonderful example of a project that's so clear about sources and about data and findings and theory and practice, but also about the flow of influence between these things, it's very helpful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1094.78,1112.27"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I also really appreciate your careful treatment of the relationship between faithfulness and responsibility.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1113.68,1119.8"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"As you know, that's also something I've wrestled with and I really appreciated the way that you described the problem of sort of redefining the distinction and also then sometimes collapsing it and your intervention to keep that tension alive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1120.22,1135.0"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I found it really effective and striking. I appreciate very much again, not surprisingly, but your continued call for ethical reflection in the context of nonviolent action.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1135.1,1149.59"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"This, I think, you're, you're really astute in your observation of this tendency to sort of skirt the ethical questions with a focus on","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1150.46,1158.29"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sort of pure pragmatism, but you also show how that there's never a kind of pure pragmatism, there's always this movement between","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1158.59,1167.08"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Principles and pragmatism. So, you do just a terrific job again with that kind of perennial challenge of ethics and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1168.07,1177.37"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Efficacy and you do a great job of demonstrating what practical reasoning really looks like in a kind of painstaking way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1178.24,1187.45"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I love all that stuff now three things that I want to talk with you about. And this is also because I love these things and I think they're really important.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1187.87,1195.76"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The first is just a methodological curiosity that I have, in part because Anton is with us. I would love to know more about your interaction with interlocutors.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1196.45,1210.55"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So did you interact with your interviewees, not only in kind of doing the descriptive work, but did you also interact with them in the evaluation part. And have you shared","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1211.9,1225.97"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"your constructive theological project with them before this publication. So, I'm just kind of curious to know about that interaction and would love to hear Anton weigh in on that too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1226.72,1237.31"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My second question is a heavier one, a theological one - I appreciate your careful work with this really fraught terrain on of redemptive suffering.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1238.93,1251.26"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Which is another one of those perennial intractable difficult issues and it persists across certainly contexts and discussions of nonviolent resistance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1251.89,1263.38"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think the pages you have on Williams Cone and Copeland are crucial. And I really appreciated them. And I just want to talk about those pages, some more with you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1263.74,1273.52"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And when I asked you for some stronger language on page 162 to talk about that. I want to ask you a little bit more about the phrase universal obligation to sacrifice. I'd like to talk about that a bit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1274.48,1289.24"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And something that Anton already brought up, which is this argument for penance. I'd like to hear more about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1289.99,1296.41"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think what also intrigues me about your project in particular is what you do in the last chapter then with a curia and Sabrina.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1296.83,1306.76"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I was really struck by this language of taking the crucified down from the cross. And so, I'd like to talk about that what's the relationship between that idea and this fraught issue of redemptive suffering.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1307.18,1319.48"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Okay, I've got one more, and then I'll stop. My third question is about application. So, this summer I reached for your book. One day when I was trying to think about a regular practice and the context of gun violence prevention vigils which is naming","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1321.01,1338.08"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Reading the names of people who've died from gun violence and I was thinking about that and I reached for your book and I found your description of liturgical protest. Exactly right. It was so helpful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1339.34,1351.79"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think you've given us this great way to describe that ritual that surfaces and a variety of protests and vigils the way the dead make themselves known","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1352.33,1362.89"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And or are remembered through reading through bodily enactment through visuals, whether it's murals or placards or memorialization of space.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1363.28,1374.17"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, my question related to that. Is this because I can so readily apply your notion of liturgical protest. I'm inclined to also think along the lines of Messianic political theology.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1375.07,1384.76"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I'm wondering if that's okay. Is it okay to carry that particular understanding, Messianic political theology, that arises out of this context that you've studied","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1385.72,1400.66"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and to apply it to other movements and protest spaces. So, what are the possibilities and limitations of that kind of application.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1401.11,1409.09"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Some of my stuff. Thank you for a terrific and obviously generative book.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1410.29,1414.52"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"James Hoesterey: Thank you so much. Ellen Kyle, you certainly have plenty to think about while Ted is going through this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1418.12,1426.07"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ted Smith (he/him): Well and lucky for you, Kyle. I'm just going to have kind of seven minutes of bloviating so you can really think on what","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1426.79,1431.02"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"on what Ellen was saying because I, I'd actually rather hear you address her questions than my own. But you can tell, Ellen and I hang out in some of the same circles because I too want to begin with some gushing and then ask three questions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1431.23,1450.64"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That I mean this is a really important book. And I think part of its importance is just the way it models, what it is to bring together high end ethnographic research","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1452.44,1464.89"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"with real theoretical sophistication around a range of theological and ethical questions. I really feel like you max out both of those columns, a lot of books are better at one or better at the other","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1466.18,1481.27"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"but to do both at a very high level and then to integrate them at a very high level, it's really remarkable. And I'm thrilled to see graduate students on this call.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1482.26,1489.67"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, this is a great model that all of us can imitate. To my mind, that the key kind of conceptual contribution is in place of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1490.09,1503.26"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"an opposition between Messianic political theology and practical reasoning Kyle names a Messianic liturgy that interrupts the present order.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1503.86,1514.87"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But then in that interruption. It doesn't issue a set of a clear imperatives it rather as he says underdetermines the ethics that follows","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1515.59,1524.47"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But the underdetermining is not complete. It still makes practical reasoning possible. And then here's the key that practical reasoning that it makes possible can be","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1524.77,1535.87"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"can curl back even upon the event itself. And so, there's a reflexivity that is built into this Messianic political theology. And I think that reflexivity really sets it apart from many","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1536.47,1550.45"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Parallel efforts. I think it's this is really one of the most important extensions of the conversation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1551.23,1557.14"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And this connection between Messianic political theology and practical reasoning.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1557.98,1562.63"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's important on many levels, but I want to highlight one and answer to your steering question Jim about the genealogies of political theology that are operative here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1563.41,1573.19"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Too often, I think the efforts in political theology tend to drop into a column where they're relying mostly on engagements with Continental critical theory or liberation theology","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1573.67,1586.51"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Or it's really just kind of familiar social ethics, but now rebranded as political theology actually all three of those bibliographies matter a lot. It's a problem that they haven't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1587.32,1598.87"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That they often function, I think as separated discursive worlds and this this book just breaks them together effortlessly just moves back and forth between them for whatever is handy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1599.47,1611.98"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think it shows great reading and a kind of capacious imagination and it. This is what this is where I want to feel to go. So, I think that's that's a huge contribution of the book.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1612.31,1621.85"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The book also shows how particularly Christian language can take its place in a pluralistic movement and I'm just thrilled at that contribution that feels at this moment in history,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1622.45,1636.76"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"more urgent than ever really and I have to say the book to me is all the more powerful because it is transparent to the integrity of the life that is behind and within the book.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1637.24,1651.28"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The book proceeds from Kyle's life and the life elements, the book. And the book shows the work of the life and the way the book and the life exist together.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1652.03,1663.97"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Just adds a kind of luminous quality to the book that is that caused me to account","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1665.56,1674.2"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean it is perhaps it is a big part of the power of the book, I think.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1676.03,1679.18"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Alright, so three questions like, Ellen. These are really not criticisms disguised as questions. These are just things I want to talk more with you about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1680.32,1689.38"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, here's the first. Okay. The book repeatedly says this is a Messianic political theology. Okay, so where's the Messiah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1690.4,1700.6"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What's the relationship here between the particular martyrs, whose names are remembered in the liturgy and the risen Christ.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1701.56,1709.54"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And this is not just an abstract question of doctrine. I have not very interested in those usually but it's really a political question about the relationship between","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1710.14,1721.27"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"those who are remembered with one another and with the living. And with those to come and with God.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1722.35,1729.31"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, one possibility. Just kind of, you know, skimming my my Bible. One possibility you is Christ is the first fruits. So, Christ, the Messiah is raised and then these others are raised in a kind of derivative way right they were in a secondary way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1730.09,1744.85"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, a second possibility is they share in Christ's death. And so, in his resurrection. And so, they're all raised Christ and all the martyrs are raised in a single event.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1745.33,1757.03"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That is out of time, so they are the body of Christ, but you could still speak about Christ intelligibly apart from them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1757.9,1765.25"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And a third option, I think, is one in which the martyrs are being remembered and they just are what we mean by Christ, there isn't some Christ that is beyond these martyrs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1766.51,1779.38"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Or at least, not the fullness of their number over time, but they're fully identified. There are surely more possibilities, but I heard a lot about the raising of the dead, and I want to know, how did the raising of the dead connect to the Messiah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1780.25,1796.18"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Alright, here's the second question. I'd love to hear more about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1797.89,1800.2"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Where's the praise? Where's the celebration?  To me, one of the most beautiful passages in this as Ellen noted really beautifully crafted book. It comes on page 39 I'm really reading","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1801.79,1814.36"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, you can read along at home if you want.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1815.53,1817.45"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It says “the liturgy makes a proleptic theological claim in faith and hope that the dead are raised with Christ. It calls on God to act, creates a disciplined liturgical space for that action, and hopes to participate with God in the work of redemption.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1818.17,1833.05"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So “Here protest is not merely communicative (addressing legislative and military leaders) or formative (generating a collective identity that, in turn, forms moral commitments)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1833.5,1844.19"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Encompassing both those functions and expanding them as liturgy, this protest invokes divine action","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1844.2,1850.39"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it at once remembers God's work in Christ and calls on God as a political actor to intervene in the not-yet redeemed world.” So key three key terms that then get picked up as, as this gets unpacked","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1850.63,1865.24"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There is here, there is here a communicative function. And there's a formative function.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1866.29,1872.98"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think the book is wanting to put accent on the third one which is an invocation because communicative informative could be just intro mundane, it could be humans talking to one another.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1873.25,1883.06"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But the invocation as a kind of vertical dimension to it. This is where God has to be involved. Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1883.33,1889.12"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But invocation positions any action from God, at least as I'm thinking of it. It positions any action from God in the future.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1889.51,1897.7"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That is the action of God is not present. It's not past because then we wouldn't invoke God, we would praise, we would celebrate","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1898.27,1909.07"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But the invocation puts all of the action of God in the future. I think that's actually a huge point with a lot of political significance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1909.49,1917.26"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If God has acted in the past or is acting in the present, then a different kind of liturgical response would be called for something like praise.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1918.25,1929.26"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, where is that, what does it mean that it's not part of the liturgy. Is it part of the liturgy? Could it be part of the liturgy?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1929.62,1936.7"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So to think about the temporality of divine action and the liturgical response. Alright, a final question that I'll just acknowledge and advances somewhat perverse","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1937.03,1947.23"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I read the book as an attempt to reform the movement. You know, so that it doesn't slip into a dynamic of secularization.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1948.1,1958.18"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's a kind of, I mean, there are many purposes, but that is one to kind of fan the Messianic embers","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1958.6,1962.77"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that are there already in the movement and show how they can be compatible with the pluralism that marks the movement today. You know, I'm deeply sympathetic with these efforts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1963.04,1972.37"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ted Smith (he/him): But what if it fails. What if the reform attempt fails. What if the movement spins into a secularization where the talk like this becomes unwelcome,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1973.12,1983.41"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"where they talk like the book, where the liturgy becomes fully instrumentalized and self-consciousness is entirely within an immanent frame.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1983.89,1991.72"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then, what could you say about the movement from the Messianic perspective that you're developing? What could you say about that dynamic of secularization itself from a Messianic perspective?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=1992.35,2005.58"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, try to explain the question by analogy. Augustine is not writing the City of God to reform or advise the Roman Empire, but to make theological sense of its coming to an end.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2006.45,2016.53"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So what would you say about this movement from the Messianic perspective you're developing if it came to an end? And by coming to an end, I mean either that it cease to exist or that it just became fully within an immanent frame.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2017.01,2030.6"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thanks for the book. And I'm looking forward to hearing more from you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2032.82,2035.91"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"James Hoesterey: Ted, thank you so much for those reflections. I'm just what a what a forum and opportunity that we have for this conversation today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2037.29,2044.58"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thank you to all the panelists and now I would invite Kyle to respond and, you know, we, this is a first in the history of the academy. I think everybody is stuck to time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2045.36,2053.97"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so, we have a little extra time and so I'll kind of suggest as we go along. Kyle, you can kind of give a sense of either formal or informal response and feel free to punch back with some counter questions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2054.21,2063.93"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then maybe our panelists can also kind of we can think of this after some of your initial thoughts as a dialogue, but then also devote enough time towards the end for all of our friends.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2064.26,2072.54"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Who are with us today for the question and answer as we had planned. So, with that wonderful engagement with your work Kyle. I gladly turn the floor to you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2073.08,2082.83"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kyle Lambelet (he/him/his): Well, thanks Jim. And yeah, it seems completely appropriate to begin with a word of thanks to you all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2083.88,2091.74"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jim for your insistence to make this happen. Even after we plan for it to happen in April and then Covid happened. But thanks also to the panelists. I've learned so much from each of you from Anton in your long, steady","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2092.97,2108.69"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"work on the streets. From Ellen, and you're merging of the fields of Christian ethics and Peace Studies is really an exemplar for me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2109.77,2120.15"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And Ted, your long mentorship and your commitment to a kind of practical reasoning on the other side of that Messianic disruption. So, the fact that you're seeing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2121.11,2131.79"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"what you're seeing is such a such a gift. One of the intuitions that animates the Messianic political theology that I developed across the book is that it's not all up to us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2133.2,2144.06"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And this truth is exemplified even in the mundane act of writing the book. So, I'm just reminded and humbled by that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2144.51,2154.35"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now you've seen things that I could not have anticipated or hope for. So, thank you. And thanks to all of you who are joining us. I see so many familiar names.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2155.13,2166.29"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In the participants list. And while I wish we could all be in the same room and seeing one another face to face. I'm so grateful that you've taken some time out of your day to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2166.83,2178.14"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Think with us about this really important movement and especially on this day this 31st anniversary of the assassination at the UCA [Universidad Centro Americana]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2178.92,2188.4"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, I let's see, I'm not really sure exactly how to proceed. I'd love to take up each of the,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2189.51,2196.08"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"each of the threads of discussion that you have initiated and maybe the way to do that is, we'll start with one and then you can pull my feedback to the fire.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2198.33,2212.46"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"As I - As I wander off task, but let's start with Ellen's good question about sacrifice. This is what I'm thinking about a lot, and one that I think all of us have something at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2214.44,2234.36"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Something at stake in. So, what I argue in the book, or what I'm trying to argue or trying to make the case for is a kind of chastened account of suffering and sacrifice that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2236.16,2248.04"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"starts with just a descriptive claim that what I have experienced myself as a organizer and what I have seen in the folks who are much better organizers and activists than I, is that there is, there are real sacrifices to be made in the struggle for justice and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2249.0,2270.45"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the question that I try and wrestle with is what are we, what meaning can we make of that or should we make meaning of that Dolores Williams important work was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2271.86,2282.18"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a just critical critique of the way in which suffering becomes valorized and romanticized and ultimately gets turned to very nefarious purposes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2283.89,2296.82"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In families and churches and and movements so that people who are already targeted by structures of violence","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2298.02,2305.73"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"come to accept that violence as normal or natural or even as kind of gift from God. So, William says no to that a very strong and forceful no and appropriate no.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2307.38,2323.19"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And yet, and yet still suffering continues. And what I found with Shawn Copeland","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2324.72,2330.15"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and then Copeland's or James Cones work with Shawn Copeland was an affirmation of the reality of suffering","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2331.29,2344.61"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/218","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that then seemed to make sense of not that suffering is redemptive but that suffering can be redeemed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2345.99,2353.79"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/219","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And this distinction I also, I came to a little bit late in the writing of the book, but I think Ignacio Ellacuría is very helpful here as well. And what Ellacuría argues is that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2354.9,2370.14"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/220","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In his work on “The Crucified People,” he makes the claim that Jesus’s suffering was a historical necessity and not a metaphysical one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2372.18,2387.48"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/221","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, this I think is what Williams is keying in on is the metaphysical necessity of Jesus’s suffering for a kind of redemptive purpose. And she's saying no to that. What Ellacuría does is he looks out in El Salvador and his heart is broken by the suffering of the people of El Salvador and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2388.74,2409.95"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/222","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"he shapes a life of occasion in solidarity with the people of El Salvador. And he wants to make meaning, with them, of that suffering. And he sees in the life of Jesus, a way to do that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2411.03,2429.18"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/223","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Not that it is necessary for some sort of ontological process of redemption, but that given the history that we find ourselves in, it is necessary for those who would stand with these people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2430.14,2442.74"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/224","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Those who would stand alongside the poor that suffering is is part of that vocation part of that life. So I think that's how I would work with that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2443.52,2453.9"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/225","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm not sure if that's satisfying to you, Ellen. And I mean, I'd love to have others get in here and Anton. I know that you have thoughts on this as well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2456.66,2467.58"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/226","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, maybe invite some other thoughts and analysis on this. I mean, one more, as you're thinking about what you want to say one more thing from the movement that I found and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2468.27,2479.22"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/227","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That there was an active critical conversation amongst participants","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2481.32,2486.6"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/228","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in the SOA Watch about whose suffering mattered and why that I found very sophisticated and clarifying that there were prisoners of conscience,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2488.13,2501.18"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/229","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"who oftentimes were people of some privilege, with regard to their subject position. So, they were white or they were had class privilege or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2502.38,2512.13"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/230","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And because of that, they were able to enter into certain actions of civil disobedience that weren't possible for other people in the movement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2513.9,2523.44"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/231","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, Anton talked about the influx of directly impacted immigrants in the movement. Some of those folks, who had legal status that was in flux,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2527.04,2539.91"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/232","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"couldn't commit themselves to civil disobedience, or just meant something more than it would mean for a well-resourced person, who looks like me, to spend some time in jail.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2540.96,2550.44"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/233","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I found in the movement or really sophisticated conversation happening about that weighed: Okay, what does that sacrifice mean what does that suffering mean and the danger that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2550.86,2563.94"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/234","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I tried to look okay and you use the term. The term. I think the universalization of suffering or universalization of sacrifice and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2564.36,2572.73"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/235","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that's kind of what I think I was trying to get out with. That is that when that experience became obligatory rather than the object of ongoing discernment, both individually and then collectives that began to worry me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2573.06,2585.99"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/236","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ellen Ott Marshall: That's very helpful to me and I'm I'm aware that we've got a robust agenda so I don't want to monopolize the time on this question. So, and you're right down the hall and we can keep talking about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2592.68,2603.03"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/237","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It, but I would love to hear if Anton if you had anything to weigh in on there that would be terrific.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2603.9,2609.03"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/238","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Anton Flores-Maisonet (he/él): Yeah, I mean, there was so much here and actually page 162 was a page that I had marked and hoped that we would discuss as well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2611.55,2617.67"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, I have also evoked the very language that you mentioned from Sabrina, where the speaking of like the call, our call today is to bring down the crucified people from their cross","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2619.74,2632.16"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/240","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And and that to me is the calling out of structural violence and structural racism and unmasking those powers that allow those to facilitate. What I've wrestled with in your writings","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2633.87,2647.58"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/241","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"as it is held as it is a kind of a mirror to myself as kind of the charismatic to. You talked about that in your book.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2648.09,2655.68"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/242","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Is that I do recognize that there is a performative nature to civil disobedience, or what I think, you know, you quoted me as calling divine obedience.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2656.94,2667.62"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/243","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And but I wonder if we're talking about like degrees of sacrifice, or could acts of divine obedience or civil disobedience, not even be sacrifice, but maybe more of an initiation. I remember","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2668.82,2682.92"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, reading where or civil disobedience could also be seen as a form of baptism, where it's it's the actual turning away","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2683.76,2690.27"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of the forces of a culture that has so shaped our norms and our values and going towards a deeper sense of call or deeper sense of morality.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2690.54,2699.6"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so in that sense, like for me, at least, it felt much more like a baptism than a sacrifice. It doesn't mean that there wasn't a fear that wasn't mean that I wasn't going to be losing something","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2699.87,2711.27"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, but I don't know if I would have ever held it a sacrifice as much as maybe something closer to, akin to the concept of of baptism. And I would also say that, and this is where I think I was asking you privately about the question of the charism like","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2712.08,2728.58"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Is the charismatic leader born, is the charismatic leader, Is it, is it the spirit that gives the charism, or is it the people that draw out","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2729.66,2737.01"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/249","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of the individual and maybe even expected of the person. Because I would say that both, you know, the charismatic leader and some of those performance of X is actually what drew","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2737.82,2750.6"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/250","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you know, broader attention to, in my specific case, you know, what made the condition that Stewart Detention Center that much more known","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2751.17,2762.36"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know the newspaper was more likely to say seven people were arrested for civil disobedience than they were to say that 1000 people came down to, to the vigil. And so just those are least some of my thoughts as relates to this conversation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2763.08,2779.49"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kyle Lambelet (he/him/his): Yeah, it has to be admitted.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2781.05,2782.49"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Just the role that those sacrifices played in exactly as Anton is indicating the whole promotion of the movement performed this really critical,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2782.49,2796.23"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/254","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"communicative function that if this nun, if this psychologist, if this teacher is willing to cross the line and spend 369 months in jail.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2798.09,2815.64"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/255","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"This is something I need to pay attention to. And now, does that mean that that sacrifices different better, more sanctified, than the, the real loss of life that was endemic and is endemic across Latin America because of US military training?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2816.3,2837.6"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/256","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Of course, no. And I found folks were pretty careful to say that and to make that clear.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2839.4,2846.99"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/257","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But one of the slippages is that I worried about at least is when that sacrifice moves into that kind of valorization that Williams talks about and funds a kind of messianism that I think we should absolutely be worried about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2847.68,2864.21"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/258","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That it rather than generating the kind of practical reasoning, the kind of discernment, that kind of deliberation about what we ought to do, how we should respond to this. It forecloses that discernment and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2866.07,2884.73"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/259","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"presents people with an obligation that they must respond to without any any discernment. And that's a form of messianism that I think can be very nefarious and Williams as well as others rightly worry about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2886.56,2901.23"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/260","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"James Hoesterey: Maybe this could be a turn, chance to pivot towards, towards Ted's questions too. And where is the Messiah. Maybe you can","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2903.66,2911.61"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/261","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kyle Lambelet (he/him/his): sure that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2911.91,2912.48"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/262","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"James Hoesterey: and then we can kind of keep the discussion going to be for another 10 minutes and then we'll turn it over towards Q\u0026A with everyone.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2912.57,2919.92"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/263","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kyle Lambelet (he/him/his): Yeah, so, yeah, these are a great set of questions. I don't think I'm going to be able to answer any of them satisfactorily or finally.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2920.43,2929.22"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/264","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I think as I thought about Ted's three options,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2930.42,2934.53"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/265","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think all of those options were to live in the movement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2935.76,2939.51"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/266","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And just on a descriptive level.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2941.04,2943.35"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/267","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There were some for whom the martyrs simply were Christ so option three","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2944.43,2951.33"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/268","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There were some for whom the martyrs were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2953.31,2959.22"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/269","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah. A first fruit of something that would be hope for.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2960.87,2963.93"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/270","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The other option, though, that I think maybe it's worth sitting with, especially given the pluralism of the movement is","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2966.12,2974.88"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/271","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"from Isaiah, the notion of Cyrus as the Messiah Cyrus, the Persian, this is, unfortunately, getting a bit of political play currently with regard to the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2975.93,2987.21"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/272","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"our 45th President. I think it's a complete and heinous misapplication. However, I think Cyrus is an interesting figure who unwittingly participates","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=2987.9,3001.16"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/273","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in the work of God in history. That's part of the Isaiah notion of Messiah, anointed one, who participates in the restoration of Israel to its homeland.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3001.64,3015.44"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/274","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think that's probably the way that I would think about this. Where is the Messiah that Cyrus operates here in a messianic way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3016.88,3025.79"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/275","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There's a stronger theological account that I probably would also offer as one witness within a cloud of witnesses that would make different claims and so that's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3026.45,3039.92"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/276","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in the book when I go to credo language of belief in and hope in the resurrection of the dead, I think when I hear present day that's what comes to my mind, that's what I think of is that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3040.43,3054.2"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/277","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"these are people who participate in, share in the death and resurrection of Jesus. But Jesus is the one who is offering a first and final sacrifice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3059.87,3072.35"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/278","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We don't need those additional sacrifices in order for salvation to be done. However, they give really","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3072.83,3081.02"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/279","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it relates back to Ellen's earlier question that might attempt to answer it. They. It's not a metaphysical necessity but a historical one and it helps us make meaning of the continued reality of suffering and give thanks for these these lives.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3081.68,3099.47"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/280","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ted Smith (he/him): Yeah, that's what, they end there, opens into one of the, like, you know, the ongoing the turning the question into conversation that. But so, so what difference does this make?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3101.93,3113.93"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/281","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean on the one hand, you could say, well, you have to kind of set your answer according to whatever sort of metaphysics or anti metaphysics, you've got, you know, whatever can seem plausible to you. Right. But on the other hand,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3115.01,3128.57"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/282","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"each of these implies or contains, these are political claims, right, because they're about the nature of the connection of people to one another and the nature of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3129.14,3141.38"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/283","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ccnnection of individual lives to that which is ultimate or so. I mean, they're kind of foundational political questions. Right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3142.28,3150.23"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/284","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That are contained within those visions of the relation of the martyrs to the Messiah, so. Say it. Say it is out all three options are present. Maybe you prefer that second or modified version. What, what difference would it make","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3150.8,3165.62"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/285","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kyle Lambelet (he/him/his): One of the, just a story from the field work and stalling tactic from really answering the question John Wright-Rios, who wrote the president a litany, or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3167.36,3179.72"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/286","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"he kind of was the one point of origin. So, the long story, is it is a Latin American leftist chant that Wright-Rios was serving as a Catholic liturgist and was a student at CUA and in DC and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3181.4,3199.82"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/287","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and he heard these Salvadorans at the end of a protest during the chant and he had just done a litany of the dead, which is a canonical right","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3201.65,3212.93"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/288","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in the Catholic Church and it was it's rather stayed and somber and he thought, well, I could kind of punch this up and set it to a cumbia Afro Colombian rhythm. And he did and it kind of took diffused across the movement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3213.65,3230.78"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/289","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the Central American Solidarity movement and then eventually made its way down to the school of the Americas.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3232.58,3240.8"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/290","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But Wright-Rios really struggled over who got included in that list, who is presente and who's worth because it's, there's a on the, you could do any victim.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3242.33,3255.32"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/291","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Any anyone who is killed, you could do kind of heroes and saints. But the question that problem for Wright-Rios was well if you do heroes, you have","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3256.01,3266.84"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/292","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"A question for him along lines of violence and nonviolence, do you celebrate the rebel leaders, the leftist rebel leaders who took up arms in defense of the four or do you only honor the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3268.4,3284.66"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/293","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the nonviolent actors and it was a real question in the for him. I think in the movement they focused on the victim. The victim was the metric of inclusion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3287.33,3300.47"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/294","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kyle Lambelet (he/him/his): But this is, I think, an ongoing struggle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3301.73,3305.69"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/295","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"For in lots of places. Part of it is who do we remember in the memorializing sense.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3306.92,3312.89"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/296","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, who's on our buildings and who's in our on our statues. But whether we remember these exemplary people are not the dead are part of who we are.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3315.5,3331.52"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/297","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think of this in my own life. I have people who grandparents and ancestors who I'm not proud of their actions. But they continue to live on in me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3333.32,3349.25"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/298","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it's not that I wish to honor or celebrate them, but I do acknowledge their presence.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3350.84,3358.97"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/299","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think one of the questions for us politically is if we act as though the dead are not with us, they will surprise us as ghosts or haunt","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3360.02,3374.72"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/300","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But if we greet them, we welcome them we acknowledge their presence. It's part of a great cloud of witnesses a problematic at times cloud of witnesses and then we can do transformative work with them on on their behalf.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3376.64,3395.21"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/301","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"James Hoesterey: Thank you. Kyle. That was a nice moment, I think, to shift to our Q\u0026A. So you think about the dead. How to the dead speak kind of the dead have an agency.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3401.18,3409.94"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/302","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In sometimes have their own and what is these acts of remembering my own work in Indonesia, which is a genocide in mid 60s. This kind of active suppression and the refusal to have the dead speak, and more recently are speaking through arts through music, etc. And it's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3410.75,3427.97"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/303","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Generated a wave of research, trying to attend to those ways in which the dead are active and a generative in our lives.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3428.99,3437.51"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/304","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, with this, I would like to kind of turn our attention towards the kind of the Q\u0026A. An official Q\u0026A. A. I really appreciate everybody we have this is fantastic. We have over 40 people with us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3438.23,3447.68"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/305","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we wanted to make sure that we devoted the last half hour so that we could have time","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3448.1,3452.27"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/306","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"To either pick up on a specific point with respect to the book or to build on one of the other points of the panelists.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3452.81,3459.2"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/307","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I guess punch and counter punch is probably not the right metaphor. When we're talking about nonviolent metaphors. So, let's not rough it up in the academic world, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3459.74,3467.93"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/308","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I welcome you to also use the Q\u0026A function. We already have one question out there, please feel free to put your questions up there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3468.5,3475.97"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/309","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then also hit the Like button if you'd like, as a way to kind of prioritize different questions or if you have a similar question to someone else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3476.3,3483.11"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/310","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"With that, just as we as people think about their thoughts and questions. Thank you, Beth Harris for your question. I'll just","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3483.95,3492.02"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/311","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"For this first one. Read it aloud, we think. One thing I've noticed, both in liberation movements in Latin American and with within. So, a w that the faith based Center has shifted from Christianity to indigenous spirituality. That is crossed by the borders.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3492.62,3505.55"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/312","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I wonder what you think about this, does it change the culture and ethics of the movement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3506.36,3509.96"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/313","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I have written some about the role of the prophetic witness sacrifice martyrdom and political resistance in Palestine in the US. Thank you for this question and for your own work into into that research and Kyle. Let you ruminate and reflect on this. Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3511.25,3523.55"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/314","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And for those who have questions, please feel free to write them in the Q\u0026A.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3524.06,3527.21"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/315","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kyle Lambelet (he/him/his): Thanks, Beth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3527.78,3528.56"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/316","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Great question and I think it relates to Ellen's earlier question about application and does this travel and and what ways. What are the limits of that travel, but I think absolutely. Just to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3529.16,3544.31"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/317","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Give the easy answer. Absolutely, it changes the culture and ethics of the movement as it changes conversation partners.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3545.9,3553.76"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/318","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so yes, clearly yes it does. And I think the, what I so appreciated about the pluralism, that I saw in the School of the Americas Watch was a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3554.9,3570.23"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/319","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think it exemplified at times and not without challenge the deep pluralism that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3571.94,3579.59"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/320","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"political theorist Bill Connelly talks about that it's being deeply rooted in a tradition that allows us to reach across and engage with others in other traditions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3580.73,3595.07"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/321","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so I think what the one danger of social justice movements and especially those that have a sort of longer history in the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3595.64,3604.76"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/322","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Christian Social Gospel movement is to kind of cloak or diffuse their Christianity and thereby trying to do work with others. And I think that's not really what I saw at its best in the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3607.7,3625.13"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/323","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"School of the Americas Watch. I saw folks with deep convictions. I see Rebecca Canner are here on the call. And she was one of my favorite conversation partners and helped me really think about this register of pluralism","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3625.7,3644.6"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/324","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"but remaining deeply rooted in one's own tradition, while reaching across being open to other expressions of it. So, you know, I think I'd be interested to talk a little bit more here from Ellen, a little bit more about the challenge or problem of travel.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3647.18,3663.74"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/325","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think with the I know your work on mothers of the movement. I thought of often here in reviewing the book and that these mothers are invoking the presence of their children. And that's part of their authority to speak.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3664.91,3681.98"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/326","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I'm not sure what do you see, is it a Messianic political theology that's operating there, or is it something else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3683.63,3689.09"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/327","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ellen Ott Marshall: Yeah, I think it could be. I think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3689.78,3691.76"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/328","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think I posed the question because it felt. I kept feeling definite connections between what I was reading from you and what I had seen not so much at the mothers of the movement at this. What really prompted it for me was attending","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3693.02,3707.9"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/329","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"prayer vigil that was organized organized by episcopal priest. But then it was there were folks from different denominations present.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3709.88,3718.79"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/330","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And they were reading the names of people who've been killed by gun violence in the last year.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3719.57,3725.33"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/331","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And and I was just so struck by the connections between what you're describing, and what I was feeling and observing and immediately felt myself saying, oh, this is what Kyle is writing about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3725.81,3737.66"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/332","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so, it was more that kind of being brought up short. Oh, maybe not mean the protest liturgy. Absolutely. I mean, what you're describing in terms of ritual and interplay was president there, but I didn't know if it felt a little","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3737.96,3752.45"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/333","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I felt a little shallow to just sort of say, Oh, yeah. And this is also a Messianic political theology. I feel like you have a lot more going on there and and more of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3754.34,3764.03"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/334","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Of what you're describing is really coming out of a certain set of theological convictions that I didn't feel right sort of imposing on those present individuals I was observing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3766.19,3776.18"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/335","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kyle Lambelet (he/him/his): And it's me also relate back to Ted's question about which Messiah, or where the Messiah, what content does Messiah provide here and I think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3778.46,3787.46"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/336","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you know, the point of connection that I would draw to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3789.17,3791.15"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/337","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"is again harkening back to Ellacuría and his use of the notion of the crucified. People that that's not an empty. It's not just that people are dead.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3793.04,3803.93"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/338","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But it's actually that they are those who are ground up by acts of state violence that are intentionally and systematically marginalized.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3804.98,3815.69"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/339","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that the attention. The, the work of social movements, oftentimes is to bring attention that would not otherwise be there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3816.2,3825.5"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/340","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, it's not that the dead, just as a class are the crucified people. But that actually there's a specific content that for me as a Christian theologian I draw from a reading of the gospels that that's who Jesus identified with that's who Jesus found his life and vocation alongside.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3826.34,3847.07"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/341","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And others would, you know, configure that differently but I think that's that's really clear and I'm just seeing some of the other questions in the chat John Boopalan Great question here, if we act.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3848.12,3862.34"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/342","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"As the dead or not with us, they will surprise us. That's a good insight, thank you John. Do the dead compete with each other.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3862.79,3870.2"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/343","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"For attention and or redress in the present moment. If they do, do they come into conflict with each other is the role of the living them to mediate do we determine winners, as it were.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3870.98,3882.17"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/344","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"This is such a profound question, Gianna. I think descriptively, yes. That's what we're doing all the time and the writing of history is just determining who is, who is the winner. And I think the, what I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3882.59,3898.91"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/345","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"found so inspiring about the SOA watch was that they keyed in. They named the names of those who were completely forgotten who were supposed to be dead and gone and never to be seen again.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3900.11,3914.24"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/346","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And this is I think what's inspiring about Anton and his work is, you know, finding purchasing a gravestone for Pedro that this, we cannot forget this man.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3915.44,3930.65"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/347","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"These lives and even one of the deeply haunting aspects of the presente litany for me was always the unnamed. They were, they would name the unnamed","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3931.55,3944.36"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/348","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"child or mother or someone who was found. All they had was a very brief description and the insistence that they are here that they are present that they are presente.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3945.74,3962.54"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/349","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That is an act of profound justice to name them to call them to mind and to claim them as present.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3964.85,3975.8"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/350","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Anton Flores-Maisonet (he/él): Yeah, I would think I'm thinking about all of my times and travels and relationships in Guatemala and the way in which","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3983.36,3991.67"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/351","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the brutality of the Ríos Montt regime and how there's still a desire to uncover and mass graves how forensic anthropology continues to try to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=3992.6,4008.23"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/352","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"bring some sense of closure, but how that intersects with the spiritualities of Guatemala, both Indigenous Catholic and and other and how it is so vitally important","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4008.89,4021.13"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/353","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to remember the dead. The, the report that was issued by the archbishop was called Nunca Mas. Never again. And it was a recounting of all that had transpired. And so, so in that sense, I think. Yes, it is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4021.85,4037.63"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/354","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's not about winners as so much for me as much as it is, is just making sure that the voiceless, those who are voiceless in life, find voice","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4038.92,4049.87"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/355","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"once they are dead, so that we may all find a better future, you know. And and so that those families.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4050.41,4058.03"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/356","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"As is often really impact important from their from their Cosmo vision but there that they may find peace knowing that their loved ones are at peace. So I think that's there's also that dynamic as well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4058.87,4073.21"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/357","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ellen Ott Marshall: Can I just read there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4078.1,4079.72"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/358","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Someone else have read one of their favorite sentences. Earlier I forget my, That was good. But there's one that that I love. That's kind of on this point about the power","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4080.74,4090.7"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/359","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of ritual in the protest and this is on page 49 and Kyle says","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4092.41,4100.21"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/360","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Let's see. Let me get it right. It's not merely that this is a ritual form with similarities to what happens at church, a parasitic echo of an ecclesial practice. That’s such a great phrase.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4102.46,4115.54"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/361","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Rather, the litany is liturgical in a proper sense as it does the theological work of affirming the power of the resurrection of Christ and invoking divine action.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4116.17,4126.76"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/362","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think for me, that's part of my hesitancy in reading that theology into the reading of the names and other contexts. And so anyway, you sort of named it there. I was trying to think where that great passage was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4127.81,4142.3"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/363","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kyle Lambelet (he/him/his): Yeah, and I think to Jim's opening question this is a real concern for those of us ethicists Christian emphasis who want to take up ethnographic tools in our work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4144.76,4163.48"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/364","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I'm convinced that none of us go to the field as blank slates, but we all bring tools and lenses. And but I think we do need to be careful about over-reading, or just name when it is that we are offering a theological reading to Cyrus’s actions to harken back to that figure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4164.86,4187.93"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/365","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's not that we have to stop at what people self describe, we can offer theological descriptions of others,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4189.91,4195.61"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/366","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"but we should be clear about naming that that's what we're doing, especially those of us who draw on ethnographic resources or historical resources to do so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4196.27,4209.38"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/367","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think that's one of the tasks. I took very seriously in the book was trying to make very clear when I was speaking in my own voice, making offering a theological description of someone else's actions that they may or may not hold themselves but and giving voice to the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4210.28,4229.63"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/368","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"many and plural descriptions that we're operating within the movement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4229.66,4232.96"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/369","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"James Hoesterey: This is maybe a good moment to kind of branch from that. And then also bridge with what Anton was saying, and with a question from Anne Gibbons, thank you. This idea of of remembering that I found haunting also that idea of the name is the unnamed","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4234.52,4248.62"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/370","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And think about the ways in which you know from forensic anthropology, whether it is the recovering and the kind of, how do we manage as scholars the active ethical work of care for the dead in terms of the the archaeological sites.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4250.33,4265.3"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/371","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then what does that mean for the these contemporary moments insights possible sites of this kind of activism and so I'll read the latter part of the question. Thank you, Anne.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4266.53,4276.94"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/372","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"from Richmond, Virginia, the capital of the Confederacy. In addition to the monuments that we all know about from the past actions. We also have burial grounds on the enslaved Africans, which were paved over as parking lots.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4277.72,4288.31"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/373","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in which are only recently being reclaimed. How do we honor and make presente those whose names and identities are unknown, and it's we have both in this kind of broader context of kind of intersecting injustices.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4288.61,4301.96"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/374","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"This moment. So how do we reclaim in that kind of context.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4303.04,4307.15"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/375","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Those names, both as scholars doing our work and I would say, perhaps even in our own theological terms, Kyle, I welcome. Any thoughts that you have or our panelists, or perhaps Anton based on your own experience and expertise that work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4308.11,4322.21"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/376","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kyle Lambelet (he/him/his): Yeah. And this is a great question and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4323.44,4325.69"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/377","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Grateful for your bringing it to our attention, what comes to my mind.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4325.81,4330.1"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/378","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Is the Equal Justice initiatives recent work on naming those who were killed by lynching across the United States. And they're really powerful Memorial work around that and I think that is critical. The ground cries out with the blood of the slain.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4331.09,4351.1"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/379","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And if we are not attending to it, it will come out in other ways. I think the other component of this, though, that I want to name and invite us to maybe struggle with. And it relates to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4352.39,4366.85"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/380","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ted's question about praise and maybe a question about joy in the midst of the struggle. I think we have a lot to learn, especially those of us who are white and come from","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4368.17,4380.08"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/381","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"European American descent about the work of celebrating complex saints and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4381.4,4388.9"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/382","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think you know the practices of Dia de los Muertos (Day of the Dead) that are common in Mexico and Guatemala. I think of other","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4389.92,4398.47"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/383","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"indigenous traditions of ancestralization the way in which the dead are remembered and not even remember but are known to be active and present","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4399.7,4409.78"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/384","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that can be a source of great joy and constellation, not merely evidence of death and violence but also evidence of a good life of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4410.8,4422.77"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/385","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"People who are traveling with you and for Christians, we have the notion of the communion of saints.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4423.37,4428.92"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/386","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Which is a rich doctrine that we can draw on. And we actually, it would be much richer, if we had more of this indigenous sensibility","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4429.79,4438.64"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/387","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of the way in which the dead are active with us all the time, even now, and that is can be a source of great joy and consolation. So, I think the challenge is holding both of those and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4439.06,4451.93"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/388","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And not only even as we should acknowledge. It's critical justice work to raise up these dead. It would also be a mistake if we merely fixated on","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4455.29,4468.43"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/389","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"on death only operating from a place of death.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4469.87,4473.32"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/390","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And not claiming, celebrating resurrection life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4474.85,4479.92"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/391","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"James Hoesterey: Wonder Kyle, if you could build on that to maybe move towards Silas Allard question that gets to the question of whether or not in through these remembrances","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4482.98,4492.79"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/392","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Like the living. Does the possibility of invoking their witness their agency, make it possible for the dead to change as we interact with them or the dead frozen in the particularly complexities?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4493.21,4502.21"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/393","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They inhabited in their life. And so maybe how have you seen that either through memorialization and ritual or three different understandings of this kind of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4502.6,4511.06"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/394","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you have Messianic base.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4513.16,4514.78"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/395","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kyle Lambelet (he/him/his): Yeah, I think one of the points of the book, and especially chapter five, is that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4520.78,4526.48"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/396","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The martyrs are not merely given, but they are created constructed and this is a very anthropological sensibility that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4529.03,4537.88"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/397","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There's a not going to call it her name.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4539.44,4543.76"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/398","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KBut an anthropologist who says basically the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4544.81,4546.82"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/399","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In the creation of a saint. There's the same themselves. There's the people who write about them. And then there's the devotees and of those three groups. The Saint is the least important","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4548.05,4559.75"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/400","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that's certainly it could be exaggerated the Saint matters, but there is a communal constructive process that happens when the dead are lifted up. Now a danger with that I think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4562.09,4579.85"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/401","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"is that we end up with hagiographic in a negative sense portraits of the St that do away with their real complexity and problems and both their","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4580.81,4592.84"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/402","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Their beauty as well as their awards. But I think the gift of communal meditation with an accompaniment of the saints can be a complicated picture in which we appreciate, celebrate their lives as well as continue to learn from and draw on their","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4594.01,4616.84"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/403","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"their mistakes as resources as for thinking about our own work in our own lives.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4618.85,4625.75"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/404","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ted Smith (he/him): But if I can jump in there. I think, I think.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4628.09,4631.42"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/405","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The other thing I see Silas getting at is not just it, it's not just","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4632.68,4640.3"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/406","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Like how they would be remembered, but can can the lives themselves that is there some sense in which the dead can change. Right, and I think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4641.44,4650.26"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/407","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think here Kylie your point about the significance of the devotees and the chroniclers really matters. There's a way in which the meaning of a life","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4651.61,4661.48"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/408","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"does I think even after death. We're vulnerable to history.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4662.89,4666.61"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/409","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If things take a profound turn that suddenly makes a choice that we had made that had seemed to end well right now and it kind of has a catastrophic ending","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4667.87,4679.15"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/410","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, that, that changes it right. And it's not just you could say it's not it's not just that reputation evolves after death, but you could say that the meaning of life really evolves after death.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4680.14,4693.28"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/411","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So it really then is how far you want that to go right. If you want to say that the dead themselves are changed because that meaning of their life is what is most important.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4694.42,4705.82"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/412","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Or if you want to. If you want to hold a kind of historical bound that happens at death. But I think the reality you're pointing to is towards that more poor us one where","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4707.5,4719.08"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/413","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Even after death, we're vulnerable to the way history happens for for better and worse.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4721.12,4726.01"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/414","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, that's beautifully stated.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4729.43,4730.84"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/415","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"James Hoesterey: I'm wondering if we could pick up Kyle with Bryan Ellrod’s question and kind of trying to tease apart. Is there a difference. What is the difference between recollection and remembrance","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4734.32,4744.25"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/416","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Says, it seems that those who have died in an empty whose names and biographies are held under a ratio, recollection of the life and its details is no longer possible. But is there still the possibility of remembrance without recollection","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4745.69,4759.64"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/417","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kyle Lambelet (he/him/his): Yeah, this is a great question. Brian and I wish we had the capacity to unmute you here, and you can help us answer it because your work runs right along these rails.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4762.16,4773.26"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/418","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, I think there is meaningful distinction, I think, you know, I'm thinking of the migrants who died have died in the desert crossing force there by US policy which","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4776.35,4791.08"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/419","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Makes the desert a wall of sorts and more deadly wall than anything that Trump could have built and who die there. And who's remains are gathered at Pima County in the Coroner's office. What do we do what what does remembrance look like for them and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4792.13,4814.21"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/420","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think there is a profound work of justice that's happening when people try and piece together the various bits and fragments that are available.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4815.71,4829.36"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/421","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, but that sometimes, as you will know, cannot happen. So what does, what, what do we remember when we remember the unnamed and there are those unnamed that we simply have lost to history.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4830.83,4846.37"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/422","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That we cannot recall what do we, what are we doing when we remember them. This is a really profound question. I think","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4847.63,4857.56"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/423","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"one of the things we remember is the structures that produced their death. And I think that's a profound and important work that we have to engage in.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4858.76,4873.85"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/424","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We might and this is the work of artists and novelist is to help us imaginatively remember possibilities that are violence for closed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4875.5,4887.83"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/425","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I think those are all work of remembrance that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4891.1,4894.97"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/426","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's a gift. When we can we can engage in it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4897.37,4900.07"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/427","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Looks like Bryan. If you want to add on to that we can allow you to speak.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4901.63,4906.37"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/428","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Bryan Ellrod: Oh well um yeah I unmuted my mic with fear and trembling there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4906.88,4911.8"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/429","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Um, I would hate to take up too much more time. But as you're speaking as I was thinking of this distinction seem to matter.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4912.34,4919.84"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/430","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Particularly as the presente literature liturgy has made its way to the southwest and and all over but I think yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4921.19,4926.44"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/431","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You mentioned the ground, crying out, I think part of what's remember that the structures that sort of take the life and part of it are or at least I feel in my case are sort of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4928.3,4939.55"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/432","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Being involved in them are our responsibility for the life. Life last","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4940.78,4944.47"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/433","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I feel like I'm just sort of stammering but I appreciate your, your eloquent response. Hopelly I will have some more crystallized thoughts on this matter and in a few weeks here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4946.63,4958.75"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/434","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But thanks for letting me jump in. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4959.8,4962.68"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/435","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ted Smith (he/him): Yeah, and I mean I think part of the activity of the dead is","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4966.88,4971.17"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/436","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in being present, right, because the the narrative that legitimates the structure, that structure of death and domination,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4972.46,4984.22"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/437","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that killed that broke that body. It needs the body, not to be there, right. Because it almost can't survive the unveiling of that body. So the mere presence of the body, then the presence of the name and the name asserted as a human as one like those who remember, you know,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=4984.61,5006.03"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/438","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It just the mere presence,I think, undermines the legitimacy of the system that caused the death and so that I think is the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5007.8,5018.18"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/439","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And you could say that's the political activity of those doing the remembering, but I think I really do think that's too shallow and I think Kyle what your book points to is that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5018.72,5026.73"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/440","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Some way in which this is the political activity of the dead. They're, they're being present and it's, it is exactly their presence that breaks up the legitimacy of these structures of domination.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5027.0,5039.21"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/441","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Anton Flores-Maisonet (he/él): So down in Lagrange, Georgia there's a historical marker for horse king who was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5040.98,5045.96"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/442","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"A slate and enslaved person, but whose was trained to be a covered bridge builder and became known for the bridges that span the the Chattahoochee,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5047.16,5058.23"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/443","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was given freedom and then actually during Reconstruction was served in the Alabama legislature and then at the bottom, it says the king is very near the Confederate cemetery.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5059.04,5070.38"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/444","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, I would go down to that Confederate cemetery and, you know, try to find king’s plot and found king’s plot","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5071.37,5078.51"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/445","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a good distance away from from the encircled Confederate cemetery, but it wasn't discovered until about a decade ago that actually","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5078.81,5086.4"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/446","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the Confederates were the ones who were buried near a cemetery of unnamed individuals likely enslaved individuals of which King would have been the most honorific likely","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5087.03,5100.68"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/447","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so I think that that remembrance is also, if we think about, you know, the Eucharist and communion right you know we do this in remembrance. I think we remember because it tells us who we are and we remember because it reminds us of that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5101.7,5120.78"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/448","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"which is of God within each of those individuals, even if they are unnamed. I mean, you know, to me, the resurrection story is that Jesus is unrecognizable.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5121.89,5131.88"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/449","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because of the immense suffering, that is that is that is in the process of being redeemed. Right. The, the physical ways in which, which is unrecognizable until","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5132.45,5143.58"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/450","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"this ritualized breaking of the bread happens and then Jesus recognized. I think it's the same opportunity here that we create these rituals, we create these remembrances so that we can remember that that there is that of God within within everyone.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5144.12,5159.21"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/451","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"James Hoesterey: And Tom, that might be the perfect way to bring our day to a close, and as I think about this and reflect from the kind of Islamic ethical traditions of how do we, how does one soften the hearts of people to heat to be able to see, feel, hear injustices of different ways.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5161.49,5180.72"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/452","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I would like to thank everybody for joining us today and especially just gratitude to Kyle for this book. It is fantastic having you here with us at Emory University.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5182.37,5192.72"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/453","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"as part of our group of thinkers and scholars here. And so, this very forum I think reflects the best of of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5193.35,5201.54"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/454","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Candler School of Theology of the Graduate division of religion of the religion conflict and peace building where we can get","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5201.87,5208.02"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/455","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Different people kind of excited and around the themes that our colleagues are working on. So, first, I would just like to thank you for your intellectual contribution.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5208.56,5217.53"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/456","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But thank you for being such an important member of our community here at Emory and it's just wonderful to have you here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5217.83,5224.52"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/457","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I want to give a special thank you and appreciation to our panelists again to Ellen, Anton, and Ted. Thank you for your careful reflections and engagement and to all of us who came","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5224.76,5236.31"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/458","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"To remember to commemorate on this day. And with that I'll turn it over to my friend and colleague, Kyle Lambelet.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5236.91,5243.75"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/459","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kyle Lambelet (he/him/his): Yeah, Well thank you Jim. Ellen, and Anton Ted, each of you for your","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5244.14,5250.8"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/460","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Just so generous offerings and this great conversation. Thanks to all of you who","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5253.68,5260.61"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/461","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thanks to all of you who were able to attend. Again, it's my great privilege to have you here. And I wish we could all dismiss into reception but we will not.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5261.63,5270.75"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/462","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So please send me an email or get in touch. It's been great to see you at least in the participant list. I'd love to talk with you more, not just about the book, but about the book, too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5271.62,5286.74"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/463","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So thanks. Let's see. I have a few more things to that I need to offer. Oh, thank you to Tony Alonso, my colleague and friend for the use of presente, his song from coming on most common issues.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5288.42,5303.93"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/464","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You will receive a post event email with a link to the webinar recording and also a link to where you can find the book, should you choose to purchase it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5305.01,5313.5"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/465","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then to close, I just like to read a poem, a short poem or a section of a poem that I opened the book with. It’s Julia Esquivel’s poem, “Threatened With Resurrection.” And it's a poem that's been for me a lodestar throughout the writing of this book so we'll close with this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5314.01,5335.19"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/466","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Join us in this vigil, and you will know what it is to dream, then you will know how marvelous it is to live threatened with resurrection to dream awake to keep watch asleep to live while dying and to know ourselves already resurrected.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5336.54,5356.73"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/467","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thank you all. And good evening.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5359.13,5360.9"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/468","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"David almost grass.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5372.66,5373.8"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/469","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Grass. Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5375.33,5376.2"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/470","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He goes, we give you thanks Lord we give you thanks a lot for such a cloud of witnesses.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5379.23,5387.9"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/471","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"chucking","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5389.46,5390.09"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/472","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Needles.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5397.56,5398.19"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/473","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Those struggles we must","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5402.93,5405.96"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/474","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Have","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5409.2,5409.44"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/475","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"This great","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5415.23,5415.83"},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/476","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"cloud of witnesses.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309#t=5416.88,5418.53"}]},{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://aviary.ecds.emory.edu/collections/1305/collection_resources/35986/file/105309/transcript/22463/annotation/477","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/022/463/original/Presente_transcript.vtt?1613069585","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/022/463/original/Presente_transcript.vtt?1613069585"}]}]}]}